Interview with Master Nuno Russo of Jogo do Pau

by Pedro Escudeiro

The 3rd of October 2017, at Ginásio Clube Português,

How old were you when you started practicing martial arts?

I must have started judo sometime around the age of twelve or thirteen, at the Budo Academy in Lisbon. I reached green belt, but then karate classes started–I was there from the start. Our teachers were all Portuguese. Since no one had visited Japan to receive direct instruction, their technical knowledge came from videos they ordered from Japan. A couple of years later, though, we had our first international seminar with a Japanese karate master: Murakami Tetsuji, from Shotokai Karate, a student of Egami Shigeru sensei. After this seminar, Murakami sensei became the leader of our karate group. There was another group of karate practitioners, students of a South African master, who initiated Shotokan Karate in Portugal. [Editor’s note: Although Shotokan and Shotokai come from the same antecedents, they are quite different, as can be seen in the links.]

When did you first have contact with Jogo do Pau?

When I was around 14 years old. I was very diligent and regular in my karate practice, so I quickly achieved a high rank, already brown belt at that young age. One day, the instructor of the club where I used to practice, Ateneu Comercial de Lisboa, was unable to teach for a couple of weeks, so he asked me to replace him, since I was a proficient student. On the first or second day, we received the visit of two gentleman in their fifties or sixties, wishing to practice karate. I noticed that they were able to perform the positions and movements with great ease and ability, much better than the other practitioners. I confronted them about this at the end of the practice, since I was almost certain that they had practiced karate before, and weren’t polite enough to tell me. They denied this, assuring me that it was their first time. The two men were Pedro Ferreira, the elder, and Elias Gameiro (although his true name was Gamero, of Spanish origin). They said that the only thing that they practiced was jogo do pau, Portuguese stick fighting (JDP). I knew that JDP was practiced at Ateneu, but I didn’t know anything about it. Master Ferreira told me the reason they wanted to learn Karate Shotokai was because they noticed that we used similar leg work and positions as JDP, and they wanted to discover why. He said that it was logical that we had many similarities, because both were fighting systems, but he wanted to figure out why they were so close, since JDP uses a long weapon, the stick, while karate uses no weapon at all, merely our much shorter arms and legs. Of course, I was curious to see their art, so the next class they brought their sticks and did a demonstration for me. Since I showed such interest, they invited me to come on a Sunday, the only day they had training. In those days, their club was the centre of JDP in Lisbon, where all the masters met once per week, to practice and socialize. Even masters from other parts of the country occasionally visited.

What do you recall that attracted you the most when you saw their demonstration?

What really attracted me was the seriousness of the system, having the perspective of a real fight. They fought for real! It was completely different from karate, where you do lots of techniques: punching and kicking in the air, controlling your movements to avoid hurting your partner, or sparring using lots of pre-arranged movements. What I saw in their demonstration was completely different. They were striking hard, swinging their sticks to hit each other without holding back, so that if they didn’t defend themselves skillfully, it would have been a disaster for one of them. In short, I was attracted by the combative side. I was always drawn to real fighting skill and spirit.

When did you formally start your practice in JDP?

I started going every Sunday. However, since Master Ferreira recognized my devotion, he also started to teach me personally during the week. Since his work finished very late, we usually started after 11.30 in the night, or even later at 1:00 am, and practiced for a few hours, sometimes finishing at 3:00 am. Master Couto, who is still alive, also taught me during this period, usually before Master Ferreira arrived. They didn’t charge any money; they did it for free. I am deeply grateful for the effort and dedication both put in my teaching.

Why did he go to all that trouble to teach you?

Firstly, because he saw I truly enjoyed learning JDP, but beyond that, almost nobody wanting to learn. There was just one other guy studying privately, who left after I hit him. Usually, he was really a very nice person, but he was very aggressive and mean when he was fighting. He used to fight with a very heavy stick made from marmeleiro (quince) wood. During open Sunday practices, he forced everyone to run away from him; he was like a locomotive swinging the stick crazily, with no concern for whom he was sparring. Even the masters had to be careful, because if he had the chance, he would hit them. One day he left another guy lying in the floor, and I thought to myself, “I’m fed up with this guy. I won’t tolerate this anymore. I will teach him a lesson.” So when I next faced him, we were both in the guard position. I waited patiently, very focused, so when he raised his stick to attack me with his crazy style, I moved very quickly forward and struck him directly. No one taught me the particular technique I used, not even Master Ferreira: it came from my mind. This was the spirit at the time–fights were for real. It was common to send people to the hospital.

How was the teaching at the time? Was the teaching organized within formal schools?

There were almost no schools. There was the club that I mentioned before, Ateneu, which had some tradition in JDP. As far as I know, it started with Master Domingos Miguel, who was succeeded by Master António Nunes Caçador, and then later, by Master Pedro Ferreira. There was another club in Lisbon, Ginásio Clube Português (GCP), whose leader was Master Armando Sacadura, Master Ferreira’s biggest rival. There was also a school in the village of Moita, south of Lisbon, and one or two groups of people who gathered informally to practice. But the only school that really had students was GCP. In Ateneu, we had people practicing for decades, but as I said, there were only two proper students, and then, just me. On Sundays, these old-time practitioners used to gather to practice with each other. It was an open meeting that lasted a big part of the day; anyone could come. I still remember Master Caçador, who was very old and debilitated, especially after his two strokes, but he used to be there and still practiced a bit. It was a peaceful and pleasant meeting, where one could find the main masters and practitioners of the time, all of whom knew each other well. The idea was to have a nice time together, practicing a bit, but also chatting. Then they would have lunch together at 3 or 4 pm. However, when more students started to come, it became very interesting, because we would circulate from master to master to get free private lessons with every and each one of them. It was really cool. A master would notice a student, and would call him for a private lesson of ten or twenty minutes. Then, later, when the student began his performance, another master would stop and ask “Who taught you to do this that way?!” The student would reply, “It was master X.” The second master would say, “No, no, no, don’t do it like that! Do it this way!” So, each one of them taught his own personal style, which was fun, but at the same time, very confusing . You had to remember how to execute the techniques the way each master wanted, and abandon what the previous master had just taught.

And what about schools in the rest of the country?

When I started, the main school was in the north, in Cabeceiras de Basto, but there were also three in Fafe, that were less important. JDP was almost dead in Lisbon and its surroundings; there were hardly any students or classes going on. At best, there were one or two students per master. That’s why they used to join on Sundays to practice and interact.

Later, I began to bring friends of mine from other martial arts to learn JDP. Martial arts were very trendy at the time, and every teenager wanted to practice. It was basically karate and judo. Aikido came a bit later. There were no Chinese arts at that time. I also brought friends from rugby teams, who were very tough. They suffered a bit from being hit, but kept coming very enthusiastically; they really could stand a lot. We didn’t had much control back then, and would hit for real. But by then, we had lots of practitioners.

Why did you decide on Master Pedro Ferreira, among all those masters, to teach you?

He was the best by far. He has a very interesting personal history. He was born in a city called Melgaço in the north of Portugal, where JDP was at its peak. There were incredible fighters, known as varredores de feira (fair sweepers). These fighters used to cause trouble in popular fairs by fighting against rival villages. Because they were used to real confrontations, their level was very high. Master Ferreira’s father died when he was very young, and he was raised by his grandfather who was a shepherd. His grandfather used to take him to the fields. It was very, very cold in the winter, so to keep the kid warm, his grandfather started to teach him stick-fighting movements. He fell in love with the art. His passion was so big that he started to study with the great masters in the region. While still a teenager, he got involved in a quarrel with a very well-known fighter, but Master Ferreira was able to defend himself and defeated him. This episode not only made him well-known, but also deepened his enthusiasm for the art. The fair sweepers had high status in those villages, not only because they were feared, but because they were also respected for their skill. They were the village champions. If there were disagreements between villages, they would elect the best fighters from each side and a fight among them would be organized, instead of having both whole villages involved.

Master Pedro Ferreira was thereby able to learn from all the great masters in the north of Portugal, being exposed to their methods and techniques. He eventually migrated to Lisbon, because life in those villages was very hard and it was difficult to make a living. Because he had such a connection with the art, he signed up for classes in Ateneu. However, the technique they used in Lisbon, known as JDP from the South, was completely different from that of the North. The biggest difference was that they fought basically with just one hand. Although he was already a very knowledgeable fighter, he started learning Lisbon’s JDP from scratch. More specifically, as each school had its own style, he learned Ateneu’s style.

The biggest differences between the two schools, North and South, was that North JDP was a combative style, derived naturally from the frequent brawls between villages and personal rivalries. Many fights were against several other fighters at the same time. Men would attempt  to secretly date girls from other villages, without permission from their families. If they were caught in the other village . . . . .  . they had to be able to defend their lives. This promoted the more martial spirit of the North school. This need for real self-protection was almost absent in the South, so the art developed more into a sportive type of fighting. In Lisbon, they started playing and gathering in in the backyards of private houses, probably with people from the North who knew a bit of the art.

Another big difference in styles was that, in Lisbon, the techniques used to defend only used positions to the side. They certainly work, but only when there is a relatively big space between the fighters, while moving at a relatively slow speed. In addition, it is impossible to attack from this defensive stance at a high speed, as one has to transfer one’s weight, forcing you to make two movements instead of just one. Essentially, it’s based on a type of defensive play for sports, where there is no need to defend your own life.

Here, in the above video clip from minute 3:40, is the “Game of the South.” Note the wide distance between opponents, attacks launched with just one hand, slower speed, with defenses to the side and a sports perspective. Here you see Masters Júlio Hoffer and Pedro Ferreira

 

In this clip, one can see the ‘Game of the North.’ Among its essential features are opponents very close combative spacing, two handed grips of the stick, defense by moving  backward and forward, and practice against multiple opponents. There is a clear focus on self-protection.

Curiously, the person responsible for developing JDP in Lisbon was a foreigner, Frederico Hoffer, who wrote a good book on the subject. Part of his work was influenced by Northern technique, because he went there to study for a couple of months. He developed his own style by compiling the techniques used in Lisbon with the few things he learned in the North. Master Ferreira later learned his technique–not directly from him, since he was already too old, but from one of his sons, the best of the three: Júlio Hoffer. Much later, Master Ferreira became the representative of both the Hoffer school and Ateneu school, and taught a combined style.  This synthesis was predominantly Hoffer’s school. Although Master Ferreira’s original style was the North School, he adapted to the type of art in Lisbon, because that’s where he now lived. He taught it when he became independent. I benefited from this synthesis of schools and styles.

How did you, Nuno Russo, managed to integrate both your arts: karate and jogo do pau?

How?! Because the only thing I did in my life was practicing martial arts. I didn’t dedicate much time to my studies at school, so I had lots of time available.

And how did you managed to keep the two arts separated from each other?

It was not difficult. Philosophically, it was easy to separate one from the other. Technically as well, even though the leg positions and moves used in both schools were very similar. (Of course, I am just referring to Master Ferreira’s school, because the other schools were not very good, especially in terms of real combat). Only with time did I started to see more similarities between jogo do pau and karate, since both are combat disciplines. My karate master, Murakami sensei, was an JDP enthusiast–he was able to see its potential. He used to do seminars in Serignan, France, and he suggested that I perform a demonstration in one of them, with the aim to recruit some potential students to start a JDP class in France. A funny incident happened there. One of the things I demonstrated was a fight against three opponents. A group of three college students, who were there watching, decided to challenge me, because they didn’t believe I could defend myself from a group of real attackers. Master Murakami gave me permission, and I showed them that I was able to use the art effectively. This was in the mid-seventies.

So, when you lived in France, you taught JDP?

Yes, I did. Some students were French karate practitioners, but other were Portuguese who were recommended by friends I had in karate, who also lived in France.

Were there any stick fighting martial arts schools in France?

Oh yes! There was bâtton and le canne. There was a man, Maurice Sarry, who did more or less what I was doing here in Portugal, gathering and compiling the content of the different stick-fighting schools. Like here, it was dispersed and almost lost. Due to his dedication over many years, he was able to preserve it. Interestingly, the technical content was essentially the same as ours, here in Portugal. We became very good friends. Unfortunately, he died very young due to his profession as a mining engineer, and his legacy was lost, because those who took over the art changed it. It is another thing nowadays. I cannot recognize it as an effective combat system anymore.

When and how did you decided to create your own synthesis of the art that made it what it is today?

Master Ferreira initiated the synthesis of JDP schools. He paid for my trips and accommodation to spend time and learn with the greatest masters of those times. I travelled to wherever he sent me, and stayed there for the amount of time necessary to learn their technique. The reason he did it was because, after living in Lisbon for 30 years, he had forgotten some of the technique from the North, and he wanted to recover it and integrate it into his school. Thus, the idea of a synthesis was his, not mine. He just saw in me the absolute dedication and the capacity to learn those techniques for him. It was an incredible experience because I was able to live and be part of these masters’ lives for months. It was not a weekend workshop; I would stay for six months, then return to Lisbon for one week, and go back for six more months. I did this for several years. I practiced intensively and took huge amounts of notes and shared all this knowledge with Master Ferreira. The final result was the creation of a synthesis of the South and North curriculum of JDP, that we called the “School of Pedro Ferreira.”

Master Pedro Ferreira and Master Nuno Russo (in his twenties). In this demonstration, Master Ferreira was in the transition of integrating the techniques of the Game of the North in his school, due to Master Russo studies with the old masters. It is noticeable how he uses sometimes attacks with one hand or both, and his movements are mainly forwards and backwards.

The changes I made since were all based on Master Ferreira’s work. The last generation of real Portuguese stick fighters, those who taught me, were teaching things that were within Master’s Ferreira technique. The improvements I later integrated in the art actually started much earlier, based on something Master Ferreira told me that I never forgot. I had been training for approximately a year and a half, and he told me that I shouldn’t concentrate in attacking, simply trying to hit my opponent. Instead, I should concentrate in defense. He added that those who focus solely in striking the opponent end up being hit. The good stick-fighter always privileges defense. Those who focus on defending well rarely gets hit, and this makes it easier to hit the opponent. Thereafter, I concentrated for two years or so mostly on defense and measuring distance. When I was interacting with opponents, I swung my stick at their body, not with the goal of hitting them, but to keep them away from me. Once I was skillful and solid enough in my defense, that was when I started to have fun! I was able to hit everybody and no one could hit me.

This was not good for JDP, however, since a lot of practitioners quit. There is a saying in JDP that I followed strictly during those times, when someone got hurt: “The blame is always on the person who got hit, because he didn’t defend himself.” When we hit someone, we used to say, “I am sorry. I thought you could defend yourself.” That was the spirit, and I incarnated it well. Don’t forget that I had no job or studies, so I could spend 12 or 13 hours a day just practicing. I was a real professional, though I didn’t make any money at it. It made a huge difference between me and the other persons involved in the art. Beyond that, I had a very aggressive nature, and the spirit of JDP not only appreciated that, but actively encouraged it. Don’t think that the other guys would control their blows either! They would send me to the hospital if they could, even the masters. It was the reality we had to live in at the time, so there was a kind of natural selection. As harsh as this sounds, it was also due to that environment that JDP survived; otherwise it would have been transformed into something else, an activity just for fitness or leisure, like martial sports in many other countries.

Getting back to your question about the changes I made: I had an exclusive focus on combat; that was the only thing that interested me in JDP. Lisbon JDP, however, had a big emphasis in its curriculum for public exhibition and demonstrations; this constituted much of the training in the different schools that existed. It was not done within the perspective of martial arts and self-protection–it was basically a sports-based mentality. Although he kept the combative side of the art, Master Ferreira allowed the inclusion of techniques within his school that were specifically for demonstrations. For example, instead of moving linearly, forward and backwards, which is the hallmark of combative movement, we had movements sideways, which are much slower and difficult to perform in a real situation. He was fully aware of that. He told me that, as the master of the club  Ateneu, he was obliged to do lots of demonstrations and this type of JDP was more appealing for that setting. One day, noticing my frustration, he told me: “Nuno, I know you hate demonstrations, and you don’t appreciate this style of technique. You are right that real JDP is combat, requiring a certain type of technique. I suggest you create your own school, leaving everything that doesn’t apply to real combat. But please don’t call it Pedro Ferreira school; call it Nuno Russo method.” I did what I did because he told me to; it was not something I decided by myself. I always respected Master Ferreira’s school. Always! It never even crossed my mind to change anything in his school, I had a profound respect for him; he was like a father to me, even more, I dare to say. Of course, when fighting, I just used an efficient technique, but when I was teaching, I exclusively taught his school–not my personal ideas. The truth is, he did the same when he needed to fight for real, using the same techniques as I did. I  want this to be clear that I only created my own school because he told me to. I am not one of those persons who learns a few tricks and decides to create a ‘new and improved’ style. Not even close! And one more thing. Master Ferreira only told me to do that because he trusted me, and knew I would create a proper school with the things I learned.

Could you please tell me about the scientific study you participated to evaluate some of the techniques of JDP in the bio-mechanical lab of the most prestigious sports and performance university in Lisbon?

I was asked to teach JDP in this university within their module of combat sports. We assert that JDP follows the principle of maximum gain with the least effort; I thought that it would be interesting to scientifically investigate this. Deep down inside, I was certain about what worked and what didn’t, but I wanted to test my feeling and personal experience through an objective and rigorous experiment, and if possible, improve the art further. I tasked one of my students, who was already an assistant of the main professor of the combat sports module, to use the university resources. Of course, I was the one demonstrating; he helped as my partner, because his level was already reasonable. We tried and experimented all sorts of things. The results basically confirmed my experience and backed up many assumptions, such as what I called the perfect attack, which is the most efficient first-strike one can make when a combat begins and two fighters face each other. Regrettably, I didn’t keep the documented experiments, because the only thing I was interested in then was how things worked in reality.

This study also triggered something else, really important, which was a merger of JDP and Murakami’s Shotokai Karate principles. This was something that was already in my mind for a long time. You need to understand that my fighting background was not in the ring or with rules, but real street fights. Throughout my life, I had plenty of opportunities to fight against all sorts of people in the most varied situations and settings. I fought tall and small, strong or fit guys, bodybuilders, other street fighters, etc. Thanks to this, the depth of my understanding of real fighting is profound. I was able to win these confrontations due to the Shotokai Karate of Master Murakami. His school is totally adapted to street fights in their purest form, something he learned from Master Egami Shigeru, Funakoshi Gichin’s successor. Both were especially skilled in karate; they  discovered things that nobody else could. I was fortunate enough to be exposed to that. The reason why it is so effective is because, bio-mechanically, it is correct within the context of real fighting.

What I understood with JDP was that the stick is an extension of the body; thus, there are certain principles which remain the same either you have an arm of one meter long or two. This was an assumption that I wished to test, which was another motivation I had with that bio-mechanical research. I wished to assess speed of attack, effectiveness of defense, footwork and movement of the body during real combat.

It was evident to me that Shotokai Karate and JDP were identical in their core principles. Master Ferreira used the same principles in JDP, without knowing anything about Shotokai. This was not true within the other JDP schools, however. Of course, there were good masters and some even had well-structured schools and technical content. But it was like in Japan, where you see many schools practicing traditional technical skills without knowing how to apply those skills in reality. If one dedicates just a few minutes per day to practical combat skills, or merely practices once or twice per week , it will be impossible to achieve a high level.’That was why Master Ferreira was so much better than the others. He also had a high combative spirit which also gave him an advantage.

Master Nuno Russo in his thirties, with some of his best students, still in their teens

How could you distinguish the proficiency between JDP masters?

It was common for the masters to practice with students. We offered deference to our own masters of course, because they taught us, but when they belonged to another school, we didn’t care. Sometimes masters would visit other schools, and don’t think some of them would refrain from hitting the person with whom they practiced. They wanted to keep their status, to show off–that’s why they behaved like that. When we felt it was serious, it became real combat. I had a few encounters with some of these masters and hit them, but only because I was provoked.

There was another reason, however, beyond this kind of competition. Sometimes there is no way to explain JDP, unless you apply it in a real situation. For example, one day, one of these masters was picking my brain about something for a long time. He bet me that I couldn’t apply a technique where we defend at the same time that we move forward instead of backward. He said that if I dared try it with him, he would shorten his attack and hit my hands. He told me that he wouldn’t give me the opportunity to stop him in such circumstances. I explained that I would only move forward to defend when his attack would be already in the descending phase, so he wouldn’t be able to see me, thus launching a counter attack at my hands. He insisted so much and for so long that I was fed up, so finally I accepted the challenge. One issue with this defense, though, is that if you don’t counterattack immediately afterwards, you can get hit really hard. To inhibit your opponent from attacking you, you need to attack. Therefore, in my immediate counterattack, I aimed at his leg and hit him; otherwise, he would have broken my head. It’s not that he would do it intending to hurt me; it’s an  instinctive reaction. As soon as you see your opponent moving forward, you step back and launch a defensive attack to defend yourself. I warned him that I would perform that technique, but would have to take it to the limit. He told me that I would never be able to apply it to him, but I did.

Commentary by the interviewer: Although JDP is able to defend while stationary, one moves backwards to increase safety. (The exercises where one is attacking and the other is seated in a chair or with their back against a wall, just defending, is to develop the ability to protect oneself without moving backwards.)  In the particular technique that Master Russo is discusses above,  instead of moving backwards, one moves forward, protected by the stick above the head. The reflex of the opponent when he sees the other moving forward is to move backward, simultaneously launching an attack. What the other master said was that when he saw Nuno moving forward, he would be able to strike him. Master Nuno said that he would only move forward when the master was no longer able to change the trajectory of the stick, which happens when the movement is in its descending phase. That is what Nuno did. However, if you don’t immediately follow through with your counter-attack, the opponent is able to recover control of his stick and strike you, one way or another.

Here, at 2:30,  (techniques 9 & 10) Master Nuno Russo is performing a similar defense as described above, where one waits until the stick of the opponent is in the descending phase. The attacker is no longer possible to change the trajectory of the strike. Master Russo advances (protected beneath his stick) and  instead of moving backwards to defend, counter-attacking immediately

Getting back to your research at the university, this study confirmed then some of your observations and experience.

You are absolutely right! I confirmed that the ideas that Master Ferreira had in relation to JDP were the same as the ideas I learned from Master Murakami, if you took their teachings seriously.

But which essential aspects have you seen from both arts that made them so similar with that study?

In particular,  the way you should move your body through the hips, from the pelvis. Everything you do must come from the hips/pelvis, either attacking or defending, including properly moving one’s body from one position to another. It makes everything quicker and more powerful, and makes you safer. I was able to merge both arts through the way the pelvis moves. To enable the pelvis to control the movement in JDP, you need to flex the back knee. Master Ferreira was the only one who understood and practiced like that. All others in JDP extend their knee. There is a video of a demonstration between Masters Ferreira and Hoffer, where you see him moving this way. It is so clear that the movement of the pelvis initiated, coordinated and guided the movement of his legs and arms.

You were also responsible for introducing new elements in JDP as a mean to preserve certain aspects of JDP that would soon or were already lost, such as protective equipment to preserve high speed techniques. Can you please elaborate a little about these elements and the reasons behind them?

The way it started was not for the best reasons (laughter). We needed financial support to keep the art alive, and at the time we could only get money from state sports institutions. However, one needed competition in order for it to be considered a sport. So I developed body protection to create a competitive component. But there were other reasons, too. Things have changed a lot from when I started to learn to nowadays. These days, we are much more concerned about avoiding injuring our partners. That’s normal. It is ingrained in us today to restrain from causing harm to the person we are practicing with, so we tend to lighten up our attacks, or avoid actually targeting the body. It was not like that when I started practicing. You need to understand that, to grow in JDP, you cannot inhibit your aggressiveness and strong intention to hit your opponent. However, when you practice with a partner, especially when you are much better than him, you don’t hit him because you don’t want to injure him. But in this wish to help him, this requires you to consciously and voluntarily commit ‘errors,’or lower your intensity during training: you diminish your speed, distance or precision to protect your partner. Obviously, this will impede you in improving your own skills. Even worse, you’ll now be ingraining errors. The only way to measure your own level or to expose your partner’s weaknesses is by hitting him.

I will give you a very practical and real example of what would happen if the level of the opponents is the same. There were two masters, Sacadura and Chula, who hated each other. They were considered the two most dangerous fighters of their time. Once they fought each other but their level was so similar that no one was able to even launch an attack; they just circled each other and moved slowly. If this has happened in Japan, someone would surely say that they were very focused, in a meditative or spiritual state, and could not find openings in their opponent. But the reality is much different: they were each full of fear that the other would hit them, so no one assumed the risk of attacking. Once Master Couto approached me and said that I should meet Master Sacadura and fight with him. He told me to keep it as a secret, to hide it from Master Ferreira. Sacadura was a powerful guy, very strong, so strong that once he fought with another massive guy and the blows from the sticks were so intense that you could see sparks. I went to where Master Sacadura was teaching and told him I wanted to learn from him, I said that I practiced for a while with Master Ferreira, but that was it. Of course, I did not reveal that my true intention was to fight him. Every time I had the chance to fight him I did exactly what Master Ferreira use to do when he hit him, and this would make him mad. He used to say that if I insisted in doing Ferreira’s tricks, he would open my head with a blow. One day, I was fed up with that and when we were fighting, I did that same technique and got him right in his knee joint and he immediately collapsed, I went for a second blow to his head, but I spared him and shortened the attack to hit his chest. Of course, he was taken to the hospital, but what was funny was that, two weeks after, he called me and asked me to take up his school because he felt he was getting too old (laugh). That is how I became the head of his school which I still am.

Min. 7.13 – Master Armando Sacadura (with sunglasses):

The point is that the only way to demonstrate the effectiveness of JDP is striking. Just training is not enough. It’s the same thing as doing karate and punching the air, or stopping before hitting the target. It’s a joke. So, I decided I could not let JDP become a joke. I thought that if I got used to controlling my attacks the whole time, one day I would have the need to fight for real, and what I would do is control the blows. When I had my own students, that’s how we practiced. They didn’t spare me.

I heard a story that you used to hire body builders and very strong and aggressive people to train with you.

(Laugh) That’s right, but we gave them full body protection. But we were unprotected. We asked them to attack us freely–full power.

So that’s how body armour was born, to free us from inhibiting our attacks, yet at the same time, to avoid hurting people. This way we not only could test our skills, but also had lots of fun. It was also easier to attract students. We were able to introduce competition, and turn this into a combat sport which increased the possibility of receiving some government funds. The body armour evolved over time. In the beginning we used real sticks and the protections were heavy, but there was always some broken bones, especially the hands. We made the protections lighter and more flexible, which forced us to change the sticks to a kind of foam material. But the outcome was not good. The students felt protected and just focused on attacking–they didn’t care about anything else. But JDP is not that–it is defense above all! With a real stick, this all-out attack would never happen; they would be forced to protect themselves the whole time. But as soon as they put the body armour, their mind changes. No one imagines how much the state of mind changes when you feel protected. Obviously, by introducing body armour, some fighting elements are preserved, such as maximum speed, aiming to the weak areas of the opponent or aggressiveness, but my concern is always how to have that in a way that is not at the expenses of other relevant elements.

First generation of body armour  (min. 5.50)

 

Most recent generation of body armour (from min. 0.23)

What other changes have you made to JDP?

Traditionally JDP only used the long stick that we called ‘varapau’, with a conic shape, bigger and heavier on the side that hits, because it was a walking stick for the countryside. At a certain point, we decided on a length of 155 cm long, but I now use a shorter one here at my school, one of 145 cm. We first used the shorter stick for convenience, because we didn’t have enough space where we practiced. Later, we kept that size, because Nuno Mota, one of my best students and I, concluded after years of experimentation, that the best size to execute the entire technical curriculum,  while being efficient against sticks as long as 170  cm, was one of 145 cm.

The short stick was the natural evolution that occurred during an interesting time in Portugal. There was a time, before I was born, where police forbid the use of sticks during festivals in the small villages in the North of Portugal. To overcome that, stick fighters began to carry canes with them, which measured around 110 cm. When they had to, they would fight with the canes. They used exactly the same jogo do pau techniques, using two hands, and the movements were the same as with the long stick. Of course, the police also prohibited them after a while. When Master Ferreira told us about that, I saw the potential of a shorter stick, for example to carry it in the car for self-defense. It was very common to use a ‘bully stick’ for self-defense (a stretched and dried bull’s penis with a steel bar inside in the shape of a cane). In fact, it was very similar to our stick, wider at the bottom. As I said, the way they used the cane was the same as the long stick. One day, however, I had a fight in the street against several guys and when I used those techniques, things didn’t go well. I managed the situation well enough, but that made me think that the long stick technique could not be applied to the cane. That was why and how the short stick was born. It then took me 8 years of exhaustive training and study to develop a proper technique. For me, a short stick is the solution for street self-defense, because it is easy to carry.

And the technique with two sticks?

The technique with the two sticks was quicker. Another student of mine, Luis Preto, convinced me to develop it and I created the first version of it with him. It then evolved a lot from that first study, many years ago.

Two sticks demonstration by Master Nuno Russo (white shirt) and Master José Saramago

Why do you think that the short stick has gathered more interest than the long stick?

Because there are tournaments with short sticks, which are open to anyone. We have a European and World champion, Carlos dos Santos. However, the rules are the Kali rules which imposes a type of technique that has nothing to do with what you need in a real fight. His titles were a great advertisement for JDP, but the technique to use in those competitions is just for that environment. For self-defense I teach something completely different.

JDP competition (Carlos dos Santos in black t-shirt):

When I started my practice in 2001, you taught us a type of defense technique with the long stick that was unique to your school. But after a few years you went back to an older technique. What made you do that change?

The technique you learned when you started is the most effective that exists; however, unless you train many hours per day for years, you won’t be able to apply it. Besides, in the process of learning, it is very easy to get injured in your arm joints, because it is dependent on the right timing and to be able to block the attacks at a certain distance, half way between both fighters. We called this technique ‘sacudir:’ to shake. Nowadays we don’t have students that can dedicate such an amount of time, like I had in the past, that’s why I teach them to block, it’s much easier.

Master Nuno Mota executing defences with ‘sacudir’ (to shake) and counter-attacking with Luis Preto

As a last question, how do you keep your skills nowadays, since you don’t have currently those incredible and dedicated students you had in the past to challenge you?

It’s not easy. I love JDP. I love to practice, and my life is intertwined with it. Perhaps because I think about JDP day-and-night, things happen to me that make me having to use it frequently. Not long ago, three or four years ago, when I was about to start a class, a guy maybe thirty-years old, entered the practice room and started to talk to my students. He said he was from a Chinese stick fighting martial art, a student of master so-and-so, a Chinese national, and he started to criticize our techniques. I told him that if he wanted to discuss JDP, he would have to wait until the lesson was finished. He turned to me, and said the reason of his visit was to challenge me. I told him, no problem, but he would have to wait anyway (laugh), since these students were paying for the lesson. He insisted, saying that his master was this famous Chinese man, and I replied that I didn’t had the pleasure to know him, and since I was not available now, he would have to wait or go for a walk until the class ended. He turned to me again, and asked me if I was afraid, and I patiently said, once more, that the issue was the lesson I had to teach. But he kept insisting, and I got fed up and told him that if that was what he wanted we would fight, and I grabbed the competition sticks because José Saramago, another JDP master, who was there also kept saying, “Don’t hurt him, don’t hurt him!” But this guy turns to us and says “No, no, those sticks are for pussies. I want the wooden ones.” So I gave him one. He starts to make those moves in the air to impress me, and by the time he finished, I had already hit him with three consecutive blows. While he was still shaking and unbalanced, he holds me and says that probably he should start learning from me instead (laugh). These things still come in my way, even today.

Thank you so much for sharing your vision, experience and thoughts. Any last comment?

First of all, I want to thank my master, Pedro Ferreira for all he did for me, to whom I have a debt for life, but also to all the masters that gave me all they had with the purest hearts. To all of them I owe who I am today, and the reasons why JDP is what it is.

I want to leave a word of gratitude to my students who, despite the lack of time to dedicate to the art, are helping JDP in many different ways and keeping it alive.

I would like to also thank deeply Master Ellis Amdur for this opportunity and for the love he has for JDP. When I had the pleasure to meet him and his wife personally many years ago, I clearly felt his respect and honest interest. It would be great to spend some time again.

Ellis Amdur, Magali Messac & Nuno Russo

 

 

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